Gift of the Gab with Clarke Jones: A Journey of Faith and the Power of Social Media

Shehla: Hi, everyone. This is just a reminder that this will be the last episode of 2023. I will be taking January off and I'll see y'all back in February for Season 9. Hope to see you all then. 

Trigger warning: This episode discusses sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

I'm a Muslim (And That's Okay!), presents Gift of the Gab. Because everybody's got something to say. 

Hi, everyone. May peace be on you all. And welcome to another episode of I'm a Muslim! (And That's Okay!). And I am back with another Gift of the Gab. And I have my guest today, Clarke Jones. She is a single mother and you are currently doing your master's in data analytics and you are also a content creator. Now, I mean, all of that is great and everything, but that's not the specific reason why I have you here, Clarke. But before I get into that, please tell my audience a little bit more about yourself, Clarke. 

Clarke Jones: Well, I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian church from birth and I left the church when I was 18. I spent the past 12 years as an atheist. 

Shehla: Oh, wow. 

Clarke Jones: And three weeks ago, I reverted to Islam. 

Shehla: Yay. And again, that is part of the reason why I have you here, Clarke. Again, all of this, when you take it in a totality, it's so incredible. If I could ask and entirely up to you, but what made you leave the church? You don't hear of it often, so what happened? 

Clarke Jones: Well, so I talk about this a little bit on my social media, but growing up, I constantly heard about God's love. And I want to be clear that if anybody sees this who knows me, I still have family and friends who are a part of the church, and I'm not talking about them, but I heard a lot about God's love and I never seemed to see it in the church community. I saw a lot of judgment, I saw a lot of power struggles. I saw a lot of hypocrisy, envy. It was just a very negative environment when you scratch the surface at all. And when I was 18, my father had a very, very public affair. And I mean a highly disrespectful public affair. Like, he brought this woman into our home. He tried to take my brother and me on dates with her, like, very public. He brought her to family events, introduced her to my grandparents with my mother there. And it was disgusting. It was disgusting. And my mom, blessings on my mother. But she was raised in a generation that she's told me so many times, all she ever wanted to be was a wife and a mother, that's all she wanted out of life. 

Shehla: There's nothing wrong with that. 

Clarke Jones: There's nothing wrong with that.

Shehla: Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

Clarke Jones: She is such a sweet and genuine person. And it was devastating for her to be treated that way when all she ever had tried to do was put work and effort into being a mother and a wife. And I ultimately finally convinced her to leave my father. And when she did, the church cast us out. 

Shehla: Oh, wow. 

Clarke Jones: So even knowing what happened and they knew about the affair, they knew everything. But because my mother took a stand, because my mother didn't forgive him or whatever, they completely ostracized us. And not just my mom, but me. And I was 18 years old, I had just graduated high school. I had been going to that church since I was five days old. And that completely killed me. It was awful. And then I went to college. So it was kind of a double whammy, because then my first semester of college, so that had all happened over the summer. And then my first semester of college, I took science classes, I took anthropology classes. I didn't know what anthropology was. And in this church that I grew up in, I heard things like that the earth is 6000 years old. I heard things like that the dinosaur fossils were placed by Satan to confuse us. 

Shehla: [laughs] Oh, my God. 

Clarke Jones: Things like this. And I had always been told that evolution was a hoax, that scientists just want to lie to you, all these things. And so, I thought that a scientist found a weird human skeleton at some point and decided that we evolved. That was my perspective. So when I saw these hundreds, thousands of fossils, when I saw all this evidence laid out, I realized the depth of the lies that I had been told and I was just so angry and so hurt and I left. I became a full-on atheist, full on nihilist, honestly, for several years of just nothing means anything, life is meaningless, we're just ants on anthill. None of it matters. Yeah. And so that's what led me to leave the church. 

Shehla: And again, considering all those experiences, and this is not just about the Christian church, literally, it happens in a lot of capacities of whether it's like a religious sphere or any, like how can I even put it? Like even a power structure, it could be any church, temple, any organization that has that kind of control on people when they treat the people who are within those structures that way. Yeah, I don't blame you. And then really turn away from everything that you'd been taught because, yeah, it came with so much pain. So you were then atheist for 12 years and then--

Clarke Jones: I called myself an atheist. I dabbled in Buddhism, which a lot of people don't realize with Buddhism it can be theistic or it can be atheistic. It's more of a life philosophy than anything. And I really enjoyed that. And I also dabbled in witchcraft, which is kind of a blanket term for just like a lot of different paganistic practices. And I enjoyed that quite a bit. I've always thought of spellcraft and witchcraft as kind of like focused meditation. It's meditation with herbs and candles you know [laughs] or it was for me. I liked that a lot. It didn't quite bring me peace. I still considered myself an atheist because I did those things almost like a hobby. Like, I didn't really think anything was listening to me when I was trying to manifest or anything like that. Yeah. But one thing that I just kind of want to say. So you were talking about how these kinds of attitudes, we see them in any organization, any organized people, just become so controlling. It's like something that people do. 

Shehla: Oh, yeah. The power hungry thing is a thing. It's a thing universally. 

Clarke Jones: Absolutely. And it's interesting to me. I feel like I had to go through this in order to successfully revert to Islam. Because you know, I was very anti-religious for a long time. I was like, “Organized religions are the root of all evil.” Like this is terrible. And what I found is-- I joined all these, I'm a big fan of Facebook groups. I love Facebook groups. 

[laughter] 

I joined all these witchcraft Facebook groups. And I found it fascinating. These are very non-religious spheres. And yet somehow the elements of religion are still brought into it. People would post pictures of something they were doing and someone would say, “Why does your altar look like that? You shouldn't have that on your altar. Your altar is too cluttered. Why are you using a black candle? It shouldn't be a black candle. That's not right. You shouldn't be using rosemary. Why are you using rosemary?” And people would just nitpick you to death. Some of these groups closed because people got so sick of being nitpicked that they left. And so, I think I had to have that experience to realize this is just humanity. It's not Christianity, it's not Islam, it's not Buddhism, it's not Hinduism. Humans just like to nitpick each other and I don't understand why we do that. [laughs] 

Shehla: Even with all of those experiences. You can say that spiritual practices, witchcraft, all of these things are not technically a part of the broader religious sphere, they exist as a system of belief, but it's not how we view religions or most people view religions. And even in that, you have people being-- people so legitimately-- I'm like, “Dear God, why?”

[laughter]

Clarke Jones: Calm down? You don't have to be right. 

Shehla: I know, but literally, it's such a terrible universal thing. And I'm sitting here waiting for somehow to find a cave with Wi-Fi and not have to interact with people. This is a thing. This is my ultimate dream, not have to interact with people. But yeah. 

[laughter] 

Shehla: But the point is then how did you ultimately, like, three weeks ago, and again, you're fresh into the sphere of Islam. How did that happen?

Clarke Jones: I'm worried I'm going to talk too much because it is a long story. 

Shehla: Go ahead. We're all here. 

Clarke Jones: All right. So, I was already starting to feel, like a yearning for connection. I felt that the universe was more than I understood. I felt either that I was being tested or that I was being punished. And I didn't know why? I just kept getting slammed by just constant thing. We always joke that I have the worst luck in the world in my family, that so many awful things happen to me. I'm the person at work that it's like the dog ate my homework, except it really happened. 

Shehla: Oh, my God. [laughs] 

Clarke Jones: Always things happening to me. So, in 2020, worst year of my life, I lost my job. Thanks to COVID. My sister and I were living together and being trapped together during lockdown was extremely difficult on both of our mental health, and it was hugely detrimental to our relationship. So, it was a terrible, terrible time. And now my sister is my best friend. We're good now. But it was just so ugly. And I had gotten a temp job and I was like, “Okay, maybe I'm going to make it. Maybe it's going to be okay.” And then they had told me that they would give me notice if I were to lose the temp position, if they were to hire somebody or whatever. They didn't. There was one week I came in and they were basically like, “Hey, you're done in three days.” And it was just like, “Why?” So, I was feeling sad, I was feeling down, and I chose to risk COVID and I met a man. I met up with a man that I knew kind of as an acquaintance over a period of time. We'd known each other probably about a year, and we're just kind of acquaintances, and he decided to put something in my drink and assault me.

Shehla: Oh, my gosh.

Clarke Jones: And that happened the same week that I lost my job. And I've had people kind of cast out on the trauma of that it's like, “Oh, he put something in your drink, so you just basically took a long nap.” No, I was paralyzed, but fully aware. 

Shehla: Oh, my gosh. 

Clarke Jones: So I knew everything that happened. I was there for all of it. I suffered all of it and I physically couldn't fight back. And it was terrible for a very long time. I had waking, like, sleep paralysis. That's what it is. I really don't like to get into graphic detail on this, but I almost lost my life. Some of the things he did. There're cases that I've heard, true crime cases, where it's like the literal same thing happened to me. I just happened to not die. [crosstalk] And it was really just the luck of the draw that I didn't. And so, I was holding that trauma and it took me three weeks to get to a doctor. I couldn't face it. And I finally went to the doctor, and at that point, they couldn't collect evidence, but they did all of the tests for any diseases or anything like that. And I had just walked in my front door when my cell phone rang and it was the doctor. And I was like, “It's bad. It's bad.” Like, if the doctor is calling me, it's bad. 

And I was so scared in that moment. I was like, “What if I have AIDS?” My heart just stopped. And I answered the phone, and she told me, “I was pregnant and he had gotten me pregnant.” And I fell on the floor. Like, I physically fell on the floor and I hung up with her. I immediately called my best friend and she knew what had happened to me. And I told her, “I'm pregnant. I don't know how to process that.” And she told me, she was like, “Make an appointment right now. I'll pay for it. We're going to handle this. We're going to get it done.” And in that moment, I can't explain the fear. No money, no job. This had just happened, just absolute terror. It was like a weighted blanket wrapped around me. It was like a hand was just pressing on my chest. Not in a scary way, but in a reassuring way, like somebody just holding you. And I heard this very firm voice in my head that said, “You are going to have this baby. This baby is going to live and you're going to love him.” And it just was so crystal clear. And then it was just like a light just spread through my veins, absolute certainty, and I told my friend, “No, I'm not aborting, I’m not. I'm keeping it. I'm keeping the baby.”

And I was so certain, and I didn't know why I was certain, but I was, and I have never wavered on that. I've never regretted that ever, whatsoever. And then a similar thing happened. So I went through my whole pregnancy. I went through a terrible, terrible labor. I'm not going to get into all of it, but once again, almost lost my life, almost lost my son's life. It was awful. And we ended up in an emergency C-section. And that whole story is on my TikTok. But again, it's a long story. That was a whole video in a three-part story. 

Shehla: Here's the thing. Any labor and delivery story, okay? I don't care what perspective it's from. It's long and it's hard. And anybody can imagine, please, for you especially, it has to be the longest, hardest anybody can imagine.

Clarke Jones: It was terrible. It was terrible. I mean, my mom doesn't even like to talk about it. She's like, “I'm traumatized from that.” And I wasn't even in labor, it was a terrible, terrible night. But then my son was born through emergency C-section. And I just remember them holding him up, and he wouldn't breathe. He was so purple. He was almost black. And I remember I was falling unconscious. I don't know if I was about to die. I don't know if they put me out. I don't know what was happening, but I was falling unconscious. And I just remember just in my head, reaching out for that voice that I had heard, that I didn't understand, screaming at it and being like, “You told me my son was going to live.” [laughs] I was so angry. And it was like, as I went under, it was just like this kaleidoscope of color. And that same feeling of certainty and comfort just went through me. And it was just like, “Sleep, just sleep.” Like, “It's okay, just sleep.” And when I woke up, my son was okay. He spent two nights in the NICU, but he was fine. He's a beautiful child. He's beautiful.

And shortly after that, through some weird twist of fate, we ended up joining a Muslim community, not entirely by choice. And I was so nervous about it, because my only experience with a religious community was a group of people that were so judgmental and so harsh and so awful. And they know that I'm a single mom and all of this. And I was like, “They're going to judge me. They're going to ostracize me. Nobody's going to talk to me, they're going to be mean to my son.” I was so stressed out about it. And they have been the most beautiful, amazing, wonderful community. I keep hoping that one of them will find my social media or something or one of them will hear this podcast because I just want to tell them how much I love them. They're just so beautiful. And so, I think the seed was planted then, do you know what I mean? It was planted. I was like, “I have experienced something I can't explain. I don't know what happened.” This community is so beautiful and loving and I kind of started reevaluating my own philosophy and I started to feel, I was like there is some kind of massive energy that connects me to the earth, connects me to other people. I believe in something nirvana like. I feel like we're being tested. I feel like there is a higher evolution of being. I feel like there is something that is achievable. But I never picked up the Quran. I never picked it up and I think I didn't want to. I think I knew, you know what I mean? 

Shehla: Right.

Clarke Jones: Part of me knew. And when everything started happening in Palestine and seeing the incredible faith of these people, that was the catalyst that finally made me pick up the Quran. And I felt like I was reading words that I already knew. I felt like I was coming back to something that I already understood at the core piece of myself. Every word made sense, every word fit. I can't explain it better than that. It all fit. So, I posted this crisis of faith video. I had thousands of Muslims reaching out to me and telling me, “Pray for guidance, pray for guidance, you will receive it.” And so, I finally did. I was like, “Okay, I feel so stupid, I haven't prayed in 12 years.” [laughs] And I was just like, “If you're real, help me out here.”

[laughter]

I don't know what to do. And I just felt so compelled to talk to a woman in my community. So I did. I went to her, she's a leader in the community. And I said, “I'm having all these feelings and I don't know what to do.” And she jumped up and she gave me a hug and as soon as she hugged me, that same feeling that I had when I knew I was going to keep my son. Just like a warm hand on my chest, like light spreading through my body. And then the same little voice just said, “This is your path, this is it, this is your path.” 

Shehla: That’s amazing.

Clarke Jones: That was it, that was it. And in that moment, I was like, “Well I'm reverting.” I don't fully understand it. Yeah. I don't fully understand everything. I have questions about everything. But I cannot deny the incredible faith that has just filled me up that this is true, this is where I need to be. This is what my life is. 

Shehla: And it's a process, Clarke. Like literally all of us, even those that are born Muslims, that we adjust, we fix, we grow every single day. For you, it's been three weeks. I mean, slow and steady. That's how we put it. 

[laughter] 

Clarke Jones: People keep telling me.

Shehla: Yeah, slow and steady. And the thing is, it's not easy as well. I can't even imagine from the trauma, literal trauma that you experienced as somebody who was very young, as a part of another religious institution where there was so much negativity that existed. And you and your family went through that trauma. And to come back to faith, it's a huge step. I mean, I think the second question I would have is that, how has your family taken to any of this? What was their reaction? 

Clarke Jones: [laughs] My sister has been really good. Like I said, “My sister is my best friend.” I think at first, I am someone who tends to keep these things close to the vest until I'm very close to a decision or I've made a decision. So from her perspective, it was like, “Hey, I'm a Muslim now. And she's like, “What?” 

[laughter] 

Clarke Jones: And so, I think for her, there was a period of adjustment where she was just like, “All right, cool.” Because she also left the church. And so, we have a lot of connection over being nonreligious, And so I think, she’s like, “Wait a minute, what's happening?” But she's accepted it. She's very supportive. She's beautiful. I love my sister so much. My mother cried and cried and cried and was extremely upset. And I can see her perspective. You raise a child in a belief that you feel so strongly about. She was so hurt when I left the belief, she took that as a personal statement on her and on her parenting. And now after 12 years, I tell her I believe in God again. But not the same way you do. [crosstalk] Not your face. Not this, so that I think, hurt her, but I don't know. I think I've kind of accepted that in this life, I've hurt my mom a lot. And I feel like at some point--

Shehla: It's still pretty fresh. Okay, maybe down the line things would change. Or her perspective of all of this would change. Because, hey, she went through a lot of stuff too. It's a whole bunch of mess, I guess, in one way or the other.

Clarke Jones: Well, let me tell you. So I've prayed about it and everything, and to bring me to a God is a miracle. That is purely a miracle. I cannot express that enough that that was a miracle. And so, I fully believe that if Allah wills for my family to stay a cohesive unit, to be together and be able to accept all these differences that we have, Allah will make it happen. I believe that.

Shehla: Of course. Of course, I have full on belief and faith in that, inshallah. But here's the thing. 

Clarke Jones: I'm still getting used to saying inshallah and alhamdulillah all of that.

[laughter]

Shehla: Along with you coming to Islam and as you'd mentioned, the genocide in Palestine and everything that's coming out from it, the imagery, the videos, all of these things had a definite impact on you. And I discovered you on TikTok. The old fogey, like, swiping on TikTok, like, trying to see what else is out there in terms of, really, social justice. I came across your videos and the thing is, it was like, “Hi, bestie.” And I was like, “This is interesting." I have another makeup tutorial for you. And I'm like, “Why is this on my FYP?” I don't even look at makeup tutorials.

Clarke Jones: I don’t care about your markup tutorial.

Shehla: [laughs] [unintelligible 00:24:16] makeup on me. But I was like, “This is weird. Why is there a makeup tutorial on my thing?” And I couldn't comprehend this. As you stated, it's like the beef between the Blue Serum company and the Watermelon-Olive Oil company. I'm sitting there, even at this point. I'm like, “Are these new brands that I am unaware of, is there some social media beef?” And again, that would not be unusual if I didn't know what-- I usually don't know what's going on in pop culture anyway. So I'm like, “This is unusual.” But then as your video progresses, you also have these flashcards that you put up that has information about the genocide in Palestine. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait this is supposed to be on my FYP. This is not an actual makeup tutorial. [laughs] But that's how I found you. I was like, “Oh, my God, this is so amazing.” Because you know as well as I do, I'm like a small-time creator, shadow banning and everything is a real thing. Okay.

Clarke Jones: Yes.

Shehla: But you did the workaround, so please tell my audience, how did that start and what was your workaround? 

Clarke Jones: So, I am ashamed to admit that I didn't fully know what was going on in Palestine. I didn't know the history of that, none of it, until after October 7th. And even at first—I, at first, was believing a little bit the stories that were being first told on October 7th, and then I saw a video, and I went, “Wait a minute. What's that?” And people were explaining it on TikTok. And the more that I read and the more that I dug into, and I started reading books, like the Hundred Years War of Palestine or something like that, reading these books and everything. And I was just like, “Oh, no. Oh, no.” And so, I started talking about it. And I think the fastest way to know that you're on the right side of something is if TikTok is trying to take you down for talking about. That's one of the fastest ways. And I made one video about it, and it wasn't even graphic, and it got taken down for hate speech. 

Shehla: Oh, wow. 

Clarke Jones: And I'm a very defiant person, so that made me angry. So I started talking about it more, and then I started seeing more and more of the media that was coming out, and I just got angrier and angrier, and I realized all my videos were coming down. All my videos were getting shadow banned. Didn't matter what I say. And I finally was like, “I'm going to test a theory.” And so, I wrote out my first bunch of flashcards, and I was just like, “Let's see if this works.” And I think that video got something like 70,000 views, which was a lot for me. I had, like, 50,000 followers. That was a lot. And I was like, “Ha ha ha.”

[laughter]

Clarke Jones: So I started doing this every day. People were talking about this app, Telegram. And so I downloaded telegram, and I followed all of the Palestine news networks. And so, I started updating and updating and updating using the cards. Well, then on Black Friday, the night before Black Friday, my account got banned, just out of nowhere, got banned. And I hadn't received any violations. I hadn't received any warnings. I started flooding TikTok with tickets and was like, “Excuse me, I did nothing.” And they said that my account would remain banned because I had violated integrity. 

Shehla: Oh, my gosh. What does that mean? 

Clarke Jones: So I made a new account. I made a new account and I told my followers, please send them tickets, report a problem. Tell them this is not fair. So, they didn't even send me a notification or anything. My account just reappeared one day.

Shehla: Okay. 

Clarke Jones: And what's really interesting is that a lot of accounts that were talking about boycotting Black Friday went down on Black Friday. I just think that's very interesting. And then a lot of them reappeared the week after Black Friday. So, when I first got back into my account, they had removed every single one of my flashcards videos. 

Shehla: Oh, my gosh.

Clarke Jones: Every single one. And I just was like, “Uh-hunh. Uh-hunh.” So, I appealed all of them. I have been spamming TikTok [Shehla laughs] with tickets so much that I think they finally started giving me what I wanted just to shut me up-

[laughter]

Clarke Jones: -and they blocked one of my emails. So, I made a new email and I kept--

Shehla: Oh, my God.

[laughter]

Shehla: I love it.

Clarke Jones: I was so mad. And then this doesn't just come down to like, “Oh, I want my platform back.” I'm part of the creativity program. I had earned $400 that I was planning to put right back into activism. I was like, “You're going to give me that $400?” [laughs]

Shehla: Yeah. 

Clarke Jones: You don't get to just say, “No, we don't like this, and just take it down.” Absolutely not. So, I don't do the flashcards anymore. I now have a blog and my blog has a page on it that's specifically code words, and it's a dictionary of the code words that I use. And I still talk about the Blue Serum Company. I still talk about the Watermelon-Olive Oil company. I'm part of the Star-Spangled Big Box store. And that's what my videos are now. I've had so many people comment on them and say, “This is so dystopian that you're talking about it like this, in this cheerful voice.” And I'm like, “And you know what?” And that is exactly why I will continue to, because I want people to see the extreme. This is like something out of the Hunger Games. Somebody being like, “Oh, la, la, la people dying.” Like it's insane, it's insanity.

Shehla: But here's the thing. And you know this because you're a full-time content creator. I'm like a part time, like, small time content, but we know this. They need a pretty face, which you got, and they need the bright, uplifting things because that's the content that sells. 

Clarke Jones: Yes.

Shehla: You're combining the two to create meaningful content. Yeah, it's a genocide. If you're not uncomfortable with, A, the fact that it's a genocide and B, that somebody's putting forward that information in a way that you want to see it, but you don't want to hear the information, then that is not on the content creator. That's on the viewer themselves, basically. 

Clarke Jones: Well, I have had some people tell me that they have their own personal traumas that they've been through that has made watching the news almost impossible for them because, like, PTSD responses, you can't control that, I understand that completely. And they've said that watching my videos has helped them get the news in a way that doesn't trigger their PTSD. And so, I didn't even think about it from that angle, but I've had people say, like, “Oh, this girl is copying you. Somebody else is doing this.” I'm like, “Good, good, copy me, get it out.” [laughs] 

Shehla: But that's the thing. That's the amazing part about all of this. And it's you and it's other young content creators that are finding these new alternative ways because, yeah, the big mainstream media is not covering it as it should. My mad appreciation for all y’all, the ways that you do it. So I like, “Mad props. I have to have one of you on. I have to see like how did this happen?” Because that's the thing. This is one of these things that what's happening in Palestine has really brought out. It has really opened a lot of eyes into what is a very terrible reality that mainstream media won't bring to light but you guys are. And I think it's so, so fantastic. So, please, what's in there for the future for you, Clarke? Because I know there're lots of issues for you on TikTok, so what are you doing overall. 

Clarke Jones: Oh, man. You know, right now, it's like I can't even see past Palestine. This just feels like such a pivotal moment in human history. I think my generation was so. And I've been thinking about this, “Why would they raise us on stories of the Holocaust? Why would they do that?” And I realized they thought that they were going to condition us to support Israel. I think that's what their intention was. But unfortunately, Gen Z is very good critical thinkers, we have learned to operate on-- I'm not technically Gen Z, I missed it by two years. I'm a millennial. 

Shehla: No, you're not a millennial. Trust me. I'm putting you in Gen Z. Okay, that's official. You're a Gen Z.

[laughter] 

Clarke Jones: Thank you, honorable Gen Z. [laughter] But no, I think Gen Z, we've learned to operate on the internet. We know when we're being lied to. We know when we see a fitness creator, and we're like, “That booty is fake. You did not- [crosstalk] [Shehla laughs] You know what I mean?

Shehla: Yeah. I get that.

Clarke Jones: -when they are fibbing to us.

Shehla: You're right. 

Clarke Jones: And I think they really bit off more than they could chew with us. Because I was even reading an article the other day and I handed it to my sister, and I said, “Read this and tell me what's wrong with it.” And it was an article about how-- And I am a sexual assault survivor and I believe survivors. I believe victims. But it was an article about the supposed sexual assaults done on October 7th. And that was the article. And I'm reading this article and it says, the reporter is writing. The reporter says, “We've seen pictures, we've seen interviews, we've seen testimonies.” And I'm sitting here reading this article and I'm like, “So where are they?”

Shehla: Yeah.

Clarke Jones: You're reporting on a second-hand source. You're not showing any of it. The source is, trust me, bro. It literally is just-- And I think that's how you spot propaganda. It's like they are not giving you true evidence. And I love the way Gen Z works, how they'll publish a picture and Gen Z will immediately show how it was made by AI. [laughs] 

Shehla: Yeah. 

Clarke Jones: And they're just not getting away with it. And I think it's interesting that it's, I've seen articles saying, like, “Why is Gen Z so radicalized?” I'm like, “You guys radicalized us. You thought that you were going to get us to support white supremacy, support Israel, support everything that's happening, and you did not succeed in doing that. You raised a critically thinking generation that sees through the lies.”

Shehla: Alhamdulillah.

Clarke Jones: And thanks for the Internet that they used to have this operation where it was like they would declassify things 20 years on or whatever when nobody cared about it anymore. The problem is though, now we have the Internet, so it never goes away. So now it's like, we grow up and we're like, “Oh, look at this declassified thing. Look at this, look at this and we just put all the pieces together very, very quickly.” And I genuinely think they don't know what to do with us. And I see all of this rhetoric that's like--

Shehla: That’s fantastic.

Clarke Jones: “It's great.” I've seen so much rhetoric that's like, why-- I even saw an article that was like, “Why is Gen Z,” it was like, “We're seeing a scary trend of Gen Z supporting terrorism on social media.” And I'm like, “It's interesting that that's how they're trying to twist it.” And I'm like, “Hey, guys, I hate to break it to you, your audience is like 65 and over and we outnumber you.” 

Shehla: Oh, yeah. 

Clarke Jones: I really genuinely think they don't know what to do. [laughs] 

Shehla: They can no longer control the audience. That's the thing. 

Clarke Jones: They can't. 

Shehla: Again, I'm older than the hills, I was born and raised at the time there's only one TV channel and one news source and so on and so forth. That's not the thing anymore. They're used to being able to control the rhetoric through that and through where it's being decimated from. They never envisioned TikTok would be primary news source. They can’t. They absolutely can't envision it that, “Okay, so that's why there's such a push to ban TikTok.” 

Clarke Jones: Yeah.

Shehla: You can call any discourse of espionage, but listen, my data is not any safer at the hands of any US-based social media, so I might as well go to TikTok to get my news. 

Clarke Jones: Well, and we're just going to keep popping up like Whack-A-Mole. Like you ban TikTok, we will find another app. They can’t control it.

Shehla: You guys will create another social media. That's a fantastic part about this. 

Clarke Jones: We will. Everybody's jumping to new things. I'm sorry, I completely got on a left turn and I didn't actually answer your question. You said, “What's next for me?” So I started this blog called bestierebellion.com and it's kind of a play on the, like, having to be like, “Hi, bestie.” And I'm hoping right now it's all just news, it's all just updates. That's all that I have time to do. I'm a single mom working full time. I do all of this after I put my son to bed at night. I'm up until like 03:00, 04:00 in the morning every night-

Shehla: Oh, my gosh.

Clarke Jones: -just doing all of this. And I hope to eventually make this blog, this website, like a source of what are things you can do to solve all these problems you see in your society. Because the number one thing that I see is people feeling helpless, people feeling too small. The flipside of Gen Z is that we are very accustomed to instant gratification. So when we're taking actions like boycotting Starbucks, marching, that kind of thing, and we don't see quick results, I think we tend to get discouraged very, very quickly. And so, I really want to encourage people that the small actions you take make a difference. The cultural changes that we make, make a difference. And I've started telling people, “It may not be for us to live in a free world, we might not get to live in it, but we are going to create it.” 

Shehla: Right. 

Clarke Jones: You know what I mean? And that shouldn't stop us from that push to create it just because we may not be the ones to get the gratification. But I'm raising my son in a way that he is going to be accepting of people. He is going to be respectful of women. He is going to be well rounded and educated, and he's going to grow up in a household where he is allowed to challenge the narrative, challenge me on my beliefs, challenge me on my opinion, that kind of thing. And I know so many others are raising their children the same way. And I think their generation, inshallah, is going to either finalize the free world or finally be able to live in a free world, is my hope. 

Shehla: Inshallah, inshallah. And I think, again, those are amazing goals, Clarke. It's literally what keeps me going. I see all of you, and you guys are pushing so hard, and I'm honored that I can really bring out your voices, put out your voices out there. So, please, in that vein, let everybody know where they can find you, your blog, and any social media you want to put out there. 

Clarke Jones: So, my social medias are kind of chaotic right now because my first account got taken down and I made a new one, and now I'm all over the place. So, on TikTok and Instagram. It's Clarke, C-L-A-R-K-E @clarkeunleashed. And I have a second TikTok. That's just @clarke.jones and then my blog. But, I mean, if you just go to my blog, all the links are there. It's bestierebellion.com. 

Shehla: Sure. 

Clarke Jones: And I am not a web developer, so don't judge my blog layout.

[laughter] 

Shehla: No, no. We're just here for the content. So everybody can see those links on the screen. And thank you so much, Clarke, for coming here. And your perspective has been so enlightening and so has been your story. I'm so grateful that you took out the time. And thank you to everybody who's listened in and watched us on YouTube. Y'all take care of yourself, and may peace be on you all. 

Thank you so much for tuning into I'm A Muslim! (And That's Okay!). And if you wish to follow my social media for more updates, you can follow me on Instagram, on Facebook, and on YouTube. All the links to those are in the show notes. And if you are on Apple, or on Spotify, or on Podchaser, please do give my podcast a five-star rating. It really does help get me in the public eye. And if you wish to donate to support the podcast, you can do so through the PayPal link in my show notes as well. Take care.