The Whole Muslim with Kiran Waqar: Reproductive Health & HEART

Shehla: Hi, everyone. May peace be on you all. And welcome to another episode of I'm A Muslim (And That's Okay!)‬. And I am back with another, the Whole Muslim. And I have with me Kiran Waqar, who is the social media and youth engagement coordinator of the organization HEART to Grow.‬‬‬

How are you doing, Kiran? 

Kiran: I'm good, Alhamdulillah. How are you? 

Shehla: Alhamdulillah. So, I have you here, Kiran, because you are part of HEART to Grow. And correct me if I'm wrong, but HEART to Grow works for the reproductive empowerment of women, specifically Muslim women, and creating sexual awareness and all of these things. Please tell us a little bit more. I just gave a brief overview but what HEART to Grow does? 

Kiran: Absolutely. Yeah, so HEART to Grow or HEART for short was started in 2010 where the-- HEART is actually an acronym that we love acronyms at HEART, which anyone will realize pretty soon into doing any type of workshop or anything with us. So, HEART is an acronym that stands for Health, Education, Advocacy, Research, and Training. And we use this acronym and it's in our name because we really try to take a multipronged approach to ending gender-based violence and gendered violence and advancing reproductive justice for the most marginalized Muslims.

And when we say the most marginalized Muslims, we use that category as something that is relative. So, who is the most marginalized can look different in different spaces, but it's our way of addressing and acknowledging that. There are Muslims who are impacted by power differently in different places. 

And so, we take this multipronged approach because we really think it's an important way to approach these issues. So, we're not just offering band-aid solutions trying to fix, but rather addressing the root causes. So, in terms of health education, we do workshops and trainings. We also do a lot of health education via our social media on popular education, as well as our book we released a year ago called the Sex Talk: A Muslim's Guide To Healthy Sex & Relationships. And this is a book that took several years to write. It's a faith-inspired, shame-free, nonjudgmental approach to sex education that offers Muslims something that is both rooted in public health and reproductive justice, but also is faith informed so they can use their faith in ways that feel nonjudgmental to them in their decision making, both in relationships and intimate partner relationships.

And then advocacy, we both do individual advocacy. We have a survivor care fund and a reproductive justice fund, which helps Muslims access funding for things like rent assistance, therapy, reproductive health, things like that. As well as systems advocacy, so we talk about the root causes that are impacting our ability to move to the world and to access spaces in ways that aren't mirrored in reproductive injustice and gendered violence.

So, we are part of coalitions like the partnership to end gendered Islamophobia, addressing the ways that gendered Islamophobia impacts our work, as well as the Muslim Abolitionist Futures, which does work around abolition and world building in different ways. And these are both really important coalitions that we do some of this work and to address the ways that Muslim people are impacted by power and the state in so many ways.

We also do research because there is not enough research on Muslims by Muslims. As we do this work that has a gap that we see time and time again, because if the research isn't done by Muslims, oftentimes it is based on gendered Islamophobic beliefs and narratives. And so there might be some research on Muslim women attitudes to x, y, and z, but the findings are often based on Islamophobia, so it's really difficult for us to work with that research in ways that are liberatory and benefiting our community, so we do a lot of work to provide research for our community, to provide research for ourselves as we do this work, so that we're doing work that's actually effective and getting some of the numbers and data on that.

And we also are really dedicated to doing community-based research work, so involving the community in that research to provide research that's also beneficial to them. 

And then lastly, we do training. So again, we go into communities and work with folks and we are always developing new frameworks that are really at the intersection of gendered violence, repetitive justice, and faith and cultural sensitivity to offer our communities something that we need because a lot of times when you're working with Muslims, you're not talking to the folks in the ways that they need to be talked to. 

Shehla: Right.

Kiran: For example, our most popular frameworks is the RAHMA framework, which is a framework that uses RAHMA as an acronym to help folks respond to disclosures of gendered violence or any sensitive disclosure. And we found really quickly that when you talk to people, meet community where they're at, you're able to see way more effective solutions, so that was a pretty long, but I hope it does enough-- [laughs] 

Shehla: I'm so glad you mentioned all of these things, because I think in a larger framework, a lot of people, especially those who are not Muslims, might not understand the actual need for this because, "Oh, you do have sex education at school. You have so many books out there. You do have shelters for domestic violence." The list goes on and on. Why is there a real need for something that is Muslim based per se? So how would you bring clarification to that? Because, again, these services exist in a broader framework, but what's the real need when it comes to having a Muslim-specific entire research framework, context, and literature? 

Kiran: Absolutely, absolutely. That's a great question. Well, one, I think because Muslims are such a diverse group, we are the most racially diverse group in America, and so our needs are vast. And so, you can't just offer Muslims a blanket solution and I think a lot of groups and folks try to do that. They're like, "Oh, okay, well, we'll just put out this Ramadan post or something like that." Ignoring the ways for example even Ramadan, we all say Ramadan differently. Even the words iftar, iftari [unintelligible 00:06:11] saying the words, even the word inshallah can be spelt differently by different folks. And so, one, we're not a monolith, and a lot of times folks treat us as if we're a monolith. And a lot of times, that monolith is 100% impacted by islamophobia and packed by these ideas of from the war on terror like "Muslims are dangerous or Muslims are this." 

And specifically, when it comes to reproductive justice and sexual health, "Muslim men are super violent and Muslim women are super submissive." And that one, erases our humanity, erases the richness and diversity of our faith and the multiple experiences that we have and so for example-- And even more so than that, even more than erasing it also ignores the potentialities of our community, because we have so much richness within our community. That's also ignoring the ways that our community has a lot to teach the mainstream sexual health movements or faith-based organizing and things like that as well, because we've been doing the work in really liberatory ways for a long time and it's just not seen. 

So, for example, when it comes to sexual health, we published the sex talk about a year ago, and we've been going around the world talking about the book, doing focus groups with the book. And it's been absolutely incredible, especially working with young Muslims to get their feedback on the book and hear what's resonating and what's not resonating. 

And so, for example in our book we talk briefly about the need for sex education that is faith based in ways that are nonjudgmental. And there's a conversation a little bit about white feminism and how a lot of time white feminism tells people "The only way to be empowered is to have sex" You know you have to-- And that was a movement at one point, you have to go out there, if you're not having sex, you're sexually repressed or whatever else. 

But that completely erases the ways in which some folks choose to be abstinent from certain things as a form of their own empowerment. And so, in the book, we kind of contend with that about the ways in which abstinence only education has been used as a tool for shame-based sex ed, but also for a way that-- It's also something that-- abstinence can also be something that people choose to do in an empowered way kind of holding that nuance. 

And so were having this conversation with a group of young people, and we are really curious about how they were going to resonate with it, because the last thing we wanted to do is that further some of these shameful narratives and it was wonderful to hear their feedback. There's one person in particular who was like, "Yeah, feminism has been a big part of my life. It's a big part of who I am. And being Muslim is a really big part of who I am. And I've never been able to show all those parts of me-

Shehla: As both.

Kiran: -as both." In Muslim spaces, she was considered like an outsider, and then in feminist spaces, also considered an outsider. And so, this book, even though this book was talking about abstinence and sex ed, it was giving her language on how to navigate those things even outside of talking just about sex ed. And so, I think that's one example of the ways in which we need information that's accessible and relevant to our communities so that we can make decisions and also give ourselves our own narratives. Yeah. 

Shehla: Right. No, I think just the book in itself is fantastic, because, again, older than the hills itself, and these are things that were not as easily approachable for somebody growing up in my generation, and we still struggle with it. Like, I have a preteen. I'm like, "I have no idea what to do. This is going to be very awkward," and a lot of parents feel that way. For real, a lot of Muslim parents feel that way because there are not a lot of holistic books written about sexual education that is also relevant to our Muslim backgrounds. And I'm in no way saying that sex is shameful, that's not what this is about. It's just that the approach to it for us is different. And I'm glad that there is a book out there for parents like me that are like, "We have no idea what we're doing, help us out." [laughs] So I think that's great.

And overall, I think the mission of HEART to Grow is so great because it does serve a community that is diverse and it is coming from many different backgrounds and that's what is sort of missed in the wider context, as you said of feminism and even sexual education that as it exists within the US. But it comes to the second question again, like I said, old as the hills. We come from a generation that for real had never had any real sex education per se, we didn't. So, it is a hard nut to crack. How does HEART to Grow go about doing this? Is this, we need this help, we need this access, but how do you convince people that it is something that's made for them, especially Muslims, how that it's made for them? 

Kiran: Yeah, that's a good question. And I think it's something-- [crosstalk] [Shehla laughs] I think if we had the answer, our work would be a lot easier, but I think a lot of the work is figuring out that answer as we go. And Subhanallah, it's been beautiful to see in the last year the ways we've approached it and the way the community has approached us and continuing to learn and grow in that process. I think there's several parts of it. I think one is, again, as you mentioned, acknowledging the diversity of our faith and also having humility in that one person on the team cannot actually understand all Muslims. Like, we are coming from our own positionality, approaching this work. One of our core values of HEART actually is approaching the work with humility. 

And it's because at the end of the day, we can do our best. And inshallah, it's helpful and inshallah, God sees that. But we're one organ. We're a team of seven people and there are definitely going to be gaps. And so that's one thing even with our sex talk book, it took tons of work. There is so much scholarship and literature and so many folks who advise on this, and there's room to grow, so inshallah, there will be future editions of this book inspired by what we're learning as we're doing this now. 

And even acknowledging our own biases and all the things. But another part of it is really showing up without judgment. And so one thing that we really try to do in the book and a lot of our work isn't tell people what they should or should not do, but rather give folks the choices and information so that they can make their choice, like, they can make informed decisions on their own, but instead of being like, "Oh, that's haram," like moving outside of the haram, halal binary that often gets us stuck, but rather being like, what is harm and what is not harmful? And so even talking about things like healthy relationships.

In the book, we talk a little bit about having multiple partners, having multiple wives or whatever else, and kind of unpack that a little bit. And I'm not a scholar, so I'm not going to go on to all the things, but we also--

Shehla: It is one of those things that it is a narrative, especially within the Muslim community itself. It can be very polarizing. But those who choose, I would say polygamous relationship, whether they're here in the US or they're not, it's complex, so I'm glad that it is addressed. 

Kiran: Absolutely. That's why we addressed it, because it's something that happens. And so instead of being like, "This is haram, this is halal," rather be like, "What would an anti-harm and healthy relationship look like?" So, we actually have a framework in the book called RIDA, which is also an acronym. RIDA in Arabic means fullness of choice. And it breaks down each one of the letters. It has Rahma, it has ilm, it has different things. And it's like, if you can fulfil all these things at RIDA, does that work? It's a framework that offers you a faith based and Islamically based way of working your relationships. And it moves us away from this haram, halal binary rather be like--

Shehla: Right.

Kiran: Even if what you're doing is technically halal, is it harmful? Is it healthy? Is it working? 

Shehla: Right, right.

Kiran: Even if you can justify beating your wife with the Quran, if that's the interpretation you want to take, is that healthy? Is that just-- Is that merciful? Is it inspired by all these elements of our faith? And so, we kind of try to take the conversation in a way of like, "We're going to provide you as much as information as possible. We're also going to provide you information you might not normally see." So, we work a lot with female scholars and feminist scholars who'd be like, "What are they saying?" 

Shehla: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. But that's the other thing I wanted you to highlight. I was going through your website, and you do have this entire panel of scholars that work for you. If you could speak more on that, I think that's important. 

Kiran: Yeah, definitely. We don't know everything. And so, part of the work is approaching with humility. And so, as a team of brilliant folks, we also know that there's so much brilliance out there that we don't have access to [unintelligible 00:14:25] person. So, we are constantly reaching out to our scholars and talking to them about things because that's what a lot of folks come to us with questions about whether it be in our Instagram DMs or emails. Is this allowed? Is this permissible? What does the Quran say about IVF, for example? And that's a really hard question because that didn't exist at the time of the prophet, that's something newer.

Shehla: Right. 

Kiran: So that's a really difficult question. So that's why we reach out to our scholars. We're in consultation with them. We're in the process of creating framework. So, a lot of our frameworks are inspired by the work that we do with our scholars. We're constantly in conversation with them, even with the book. We worked really closely with Dr. Asifa Qureshi to do a lot of that works because we're not scholars of Islamic law and ethics, so we had to reach out to the scholars to get that information and combine it with some of the work that we're doing on the ground, in community, and with public health scholars. So, we really try to again, bring that holistic approach to everything we do. 

Shehla: Mm-hmm. And I noticed that this sort of, again, within the Muslim framework, sort of goes into a lot of hazy ground, especially recently, has created a bit of, if I had to say, a paradox for Muslims when it comes to being queer and being Muslim. If you could speak on some of the work that HEART to Grow has done, especially when it comes to the voices of queer Muslims. 

Kiran: Yeah, I mean, again, we're queer affirming, we're queer inclusive. The queer Muslims exist within our community and they have a lot to offer to our community. And so even in our sex talk book, there are resources in there for queer Muslims, navigating sexual health and relationships, because ignoring the existence of queer Muslims is only doing a disservice to our community. It's causing a lot of harm and it allows for a lot of violence to happen as well, and so it's definitely a big part of our work as well, is being in community. 

And again, as I said, we aim to serve the most marginalized Muslims, so that might look differently in different spaces. And that includes acknowledging, naming, and celebrating queerness in the ways that we can. And so, whether that be offering resources and things like that. And a lot of times, we do address the ways in which our communities have excluded folks from our own land and we are not even part of that violence. 

Shehla: Hmm. Right, right. The other thing I wanted to ask was, you said that a lot of workshops happen through HEART to Grow. What are some of the workshops that it conducts and how often, how frequently, and how do people get to know about it? 

Kiran: Yeah, so we do tons of workshops. A popular one is responding with RAHMA, which is a way of responding when there are sensitive disclosures in our community. We also have different frameworks around renewing your intentions, renewing your Niyyah and using those to address gendered violence, as well as like Amanah, you're creating community and Adala and justice. So, often we take a multilayered approach and we oftentimes like to work with communities several times, because a lot of times what happens is there's an abuser or a person who harmed is exposed, and all of a sudden, the community is freaking out and they're like, "Oh, my God, how'd we fix? Give us a workshop." And it's like, "Well, the problem that happened isn't just this one person, it's a lot deeper." We have to address the root causes and so this is going to take time. 

And so, a lot of our frameworks and a lot of our trainings and workshops really strive to build trust, build community, and build long-term resources and skill building in ways that are sustainable. Because we really aren't here for the quick fix. We're here for long-term solutions that-

Shehla: Right, right.

Kiran: -prevent violence in the future, rather than addressing in the short term and then moving on. So that when it happens again, we all freak out again and we're like, "Oh my God, how did this happen? The uproar happens again." Three months later, it happens again. Or it's happening and you don't even see it because sometimes it's silence, and so we are not a quick fix. We are very much into the relational, long term and systems level, root based, addressing the root causes of violence. 

Shehla: Yeah, and majority of time that's what needs to happen again. Band-aid bullet wounds does not work out in any circumstances. Where does HEART to Grow see itself? This is like a job interview five years down the line, where does HEART to Grow see itself? 

Kiran: That's a good question. God will tell us. But I think just continuing to deepen the work, continuing to approach the work with lots of curiosity, continuously addressing community needs. So, I'm thinking about the question I'm like, wherever the community needs us to be. I think even the last ten years-- since 2010, in the years we've grown, originally, the organization started as a way of just offering trainings and workshops, and it's continued to grow and grow and grow because the needs have continued to grow and expand, and our capacity has continued to grow and expand. 

And so, I think the sex talk book, for example, is one of the ways that we've seen that grow from offering these workshops to having our own resources that are inspired by the research we've done, inspired by our conversations with community and our relationship with scholars. 

One project we're doing right now is we're about to launch this weekend our inaugural sex talk cohort. And so, we've been interviewing and recruiting young folks from around the country to have these conversations in their own communities without us. And so, we're training folks this weekend on how to respond to violence and how to have these conversations in shame-free, trauma-informed ways in their communities. And then we're going to release them into the community to have their own conversations in community led ways, and we're excited. 

We're also doing a research project with that. So, we're going to collect data on that and then based on that, and based on that see where we need to grow. And so, I think one of the ways I personally see HEART growing in the next five years is more community-led conversations, because I think part of our work is also empowering and training the community to do these things without us as well. So inshallah, that's what happens with these book club programs. And inshallah, that's what happens with some of our other work as well. 

Shehla: No. Again, I think it's fantastic work that HEART to Grow does very much needed. Again, because right now in the US Muslims exist as a minority, and we have many minorities within minority groups. We need something that's specific to us for many different issues. And I think what HEART to Grow does, especially when it comes to sexual health, sexual education, all of these things, is very important. So please tell my audience that are watching and listening to us that where can they find A, number one, the Sex Talk book, I will be buying that, because, again, yes, mama for preteen, I have no idea what I'm doing. And where can they really reach out to HEART to Grow to find out more about these resources? And where can they connect to all of you on social media? 

Kiran: Absolutely. That's my favorite question.

[laughter]

Kiran: Well, you can connect with us in all the ways. As I said, we do a bunch of different things, but our social media is at @hearttogrow on all things. We're especially active on Instagram, so if you want to follow us there, definitely follow us. We have a website. Check out some of our resources. We have resources on gendered Islamophobia. We have resources on how to respond to RAHMA. We have offerings on there for some of our trainings and workshops, if you want to bring us into your community. We work with MSAs, we work with university faculty. We work with different organizations, masjids, whatever, whoever. We're open to supporting and working with you to figure out what the needs are. 

We also have some of our research on our website. So, we both have research that's published in academic journals. But we also think that if this research is for community by community, it should also be accessible to community, both without firewalls, but also in actual language accessibility. So, we have some of our research reports that have been translated into visual reports on our website. We also have social media graphics that break it down even more so. There's also lives and videos and YouTube videos discussing some of our research. So, if you ever want to find any of our research, bring some of that research into your research or into your communities or whatever else super, that's all there for you too, whether you want it in an academic journal format or an Instagram post format.

And then our Sex Talk book, you can find that on Amazon. We're in the process of creating a digital version, but you can find it on Amazon right now and it might be out right now, I'm not sure. So that's out there.

Shehla: And everybody will be able to see that link on the screen. I'll put the links also down in the show notes so everybody has access to it. Thank you so much Kiran for coming in and really bringing us more about what HEART to Grow does. I wish all the success to HEART to Grow and the wonderful work it does. Thank you to everybody who's listened to us and watched us on YouTube. Y'all take care of yourself and may peace be on you all. 

Kiran: Salaam Alaikum. Thank you so much. 

Shehla: Thank you so much for tuning in to I'm A Muslim (And That's Okay!). And if you wish to follow my social media for more updates, you can follow me on Instagram, on Facebook and on YouTube. All the links to those are in the show notes. And if you are on Apple or on Spotify or on Podchaser, please do give my podcast a five-star rating. It really does help get me in the public eye. And if you wish to donate to support the podcast, you can do so through the PayPal link in my show notes as well. ‬‬‬

Take care.